Denseman on the Rattis

Formerly known as the Widmann Blog


After the Irish yes

Originally uploaded by infomatique

It was a relief to see that Ireland voted yes by such a large margin.

I’d be the first to admit that the Lisbon Treaty isn’t perfect by any stretch of imagination, but it’s time to accept it and move on.

It doesn’t seem like the Tories have understood this, though.

The leadership are ducking the issue: ‘However, Mr Cameron declared in an email to Tory supporters last night on the eve of his party’s annual gathering, in Manchester: “I want to make one thing clear: there will be no change in our policy on Europe and no new announcements at the conference.”‘

And most of their members want a referendum no matter what: “The poll of 2,205 Tory members by the website found that more than eight in 10 want him to call a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon even if it has been approved by the next general election – a pledge he is refusing to make.”

Scarily, according to the latter link, “total withdrawal from the European Union is the most favoured option among party members when asked how a Tory government should handle the issue, putting them totally at odds with a Tory leadership committed to British membership. Some 82 per cent want to freeze Britain’s financial contributions to the EU.”

Much as Gordon Brown and New Labour are a disaster, it’s hard to believe that such a europhobic party can be an improvement for the country. 🙁

4 thoughts on “After the Irish yes

  • I think the Irish vote was a travisty. Ireland had already voted a resounding NO .,., so why did they get coerced into a 2nd. vote ,, And if that had been no also, would we have had the expense of a 3rd ,, and 4th ,, ’til the Europhiles got the answer they wanted ??
    I also think the Lisbon Treaty is the worst thing ever to have been inflicted on Europe and want no part of it ! Accept it and move on ??? No way !
    As it happens I also have no time for either Tories or this bunch of so called labour Tories ,,
    Is it any wonder we true, thinking Scots want our Nation back ?

  • Interestingly naive dad – haven’t seen the Lisbon treaty lying around your house so am assuming you’ve either NOT read it or read our ever-so-Europhile-unbiased press’s interpretation of it. (which is exactly wha the xenophobic press wants you to do). Irish got to vote again because their view was listened to and the treaty amended – would seem a little unjust for them not to get a second say after it was amended in their favour. I for one hope to God we get no referendum here because the thought of the 80% of stupid people in the country reading the papers’ biased view of the treaty then voting No like good little boys and girls leaving us as a tiny unrepresented block with a weak currency between US, Europe and Asia with the Tories in complete control of the future scares me witless. Actually, given a choice between Tories and Labour in charge of UK policies give me a federal Europe any day. You seriously believe Brown or Cameron are better at it? Cos let’s face it until Scotland has the balls to vote for Independence (at which point we will need Europe’s backing like never before because of our size) that’s the choice. I don’t see any of the other Scotland-sized blocks in Europe wanting less help – eg Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland Latvia etc In fact the one thing that would make me refight the custody battle and leave the country is the Tories isolating us in that way.

  • I totally agree with Phyllis, but just to answer you myself, too:
    First of all, what else would you have done after Ireland voted no the first time? We’re talking about a treaty negotiated and agreed on by politicians from all EU countries, including Ireland (and the UK). When leaders from other countries asked the Irish ones what they wanted to happen, whether they wanted the other countries to proceed without them, or whether they wanted specific concerns addressed and then vote again, they immediately opted for the latter. You seem to be implying that the whole thing should have been shelved, but when a vast majority of the other countries insist it’s needed, it would be very unfriendly to insist on the status quo for ever.
    You’re claiming that the Lisbon Treaty is the worst thing ever to have been inflicted on Europe. That’s strong words. You mean that it’s worse that the Black Death, and worse than the two world wars? Surely you’re joking! What is it you have against it anyway? That it allows for national parliaments to be more involved in EU law-making? That it obliges member states to help each other in the case of a terrorist attack? That it introduces citizens’ petitions? That it makes it possibible to accept more countries as EU members? Do tell me!
    And when it comes to Scottish independence, don’t you see that it only makes sense within the EU? Small, truly independent countries have many problems, whereas the EU gives them the secure framework to do well. I’m strongly in favour of Scottish independence within the EU, but I would be strongly against Scottish independence outwith it.

  • Ok ok I give in .,., 🙂


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